7TP (PL)

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

This thread is for the discussion of the article on the 7TP.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Every month, we will be looking at one of the more obscure tanks of World War II. The purpose is to discuss the vehicle, and to gather more information about it. At the end of the month, the information will be amalgamated into the Tanks in World War 2 website article about the tank, and the thread will be merged into the thread in the Tanks in World War 2 Website forum.

For the first tank, we'll be looking at the Polish 7TP. Based on the Vickers 6-ton tank, it was one of the most - if not the most - modern tank in the Polish arsenal in 1939, easily able to stand up against the German Pz. Kpfw. I and II.

[SturmTiger]

One other variant of the 7TP had twin turrets housing Vickers .303 machine guns.

[PanzerProfile]

Remarkable to see that the suspension is very much akin to the pz. 4 suspension. (Big drive sprocket and idler wheel, 8 road wheels, 4 track return rollers) Would seem it's ahead of its time...
other than that I know little of this tank.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Looks like there are two surviving vehicles, though only one available to the public:
http://www.pmvrp.com/index.php?vehicle=478
http://www.pmvrp.com/index.php?vehicle=479

I would say the suspension looks more like the T-26 (nor surprising, perhaps, since they were both based on the Vickers 6 ton). I can't really think of any other British tanks with the same layout, though.

[David W]

I would say the suspension looks more like the T-26 (nor surprising, perhaps, since they were both based on the Vickers 6 ton). I can't really think of any other British tanks with the same layout, though.

Nor I.
It looks a bit like some of the French ones though.

[tom!]

Hi.

Following Spielbergers "Beute-Kraftwagen und -Panzer der deutschen Wehrmacht" the 7TP was designed because the Vickers 6-ton tanks had several problems especially regarding engine, cooling and armour. Therefore several parts were excanged by domestic designed parts and armour strength was increased from 13 mm to 17 mm maximum. A licence -built Saurer Diesel engine was chosen, making it the first european diesel-powered serial production tank.The tank was armed with two Browning model 30 MG in separate turrets.Test trials started in mid 1934 and were finished until Fall. On 18.03.1935 the polish army ordered 22 of these tanks now named type 7TP. In addition 10 special railway waggons were purchased for transport.

The twin turret configuration with limited traverse for each turret was soon found inferiour to the single turret configuration of the newer designs. But the polish army saw no chance to find a completely domestic solution for a gun turret. And so a design from Bofors with a modified Bofors 37 mm anti-tank gun 36 named 37 mm tank gun 37 and a 7,9 mm MG in a conical turret with rear luggage extension was chosen. With a Zeiss scope the tank had a superiour firepower at his time. The twin-turret version was renamed type 7TPdw and the single-turret version received the designation type 7TPjw.

Bofors delivered the first 16 turrets between February 1936 and January 1937. Several tanks were changed from twin-turret version to single-turret version during production. From May 1938 the turret production was done in Poland, too. on 01.09.1939 135 type 7TP were built with 40 in twin-turret configuration but only 114 were operational. The last version of the type 7TPjw was built with an improved cooling and modified external exhaust system.

In 1939 Yugoslavia and Afganistan started negotiations for a purchase of 36/12 type 7TPjw tanks but the beginning of the war ended them. During the german invasion the tank was superiour to the german Panzer I and II and Panzer 35(t). After surrender the remaining operational tanks were were used by the germans for a victory parade in Warsaw and then issued to the 1st Tank Regiment as training tanks. From 1941 the tanks were handed over to police units and used during anti-guerilla operations until spare parts ran out.

Yours

tom!

[SturmTiger]

Another informative post to say the least.Chime in a bit more often tom.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

Excellent post, Tom.

It seems the 'dw' and 'jw' designations were official designations, but rather another case of post-war Western authors messing things up

Twin and single turret variants had no specific designations. In some Western pubblications they are designated with: "dw." and "jw." - they are abbreviations of Polish words: "dwuwieżowy" = twin-turreted and "jednowieżowy" = single-turreted. These abbreviations are not used in any Polish sources, The standard one was single-turret variant, and could be called just: "7TP".

http://derela.republika.pl/7tp.htm

[SturmTiger]

Here's a couple of kits I built a while ago.

37mm Version


Twin Turreted

[Ricky]

I would say the suspension looks more like the T-26 (nor surprising, perhaps, since they were both based on the Vickers 6 ton). I can't really think of any other British tanks with the same layout, though.

The Vickers 6-ton was used by Bolivia, Bulgaria, China, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Japan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Thailand, the USSR, and the USA - Poland and the USSR were particularly heavy users, and both developed their own versions.

The suspension system seems to have been unique to Vickers, and only on a handful of prototypes besides the 6-ton - the Horstmann-type suspension as seen on the various Vickers Light tanks seems to have teken over..

The 6-ton Type A (twin turret)


The 6-ton Type B (single turret)


The T-26

[SturmTiger]

I had no idea the US used the Vickers!

[Ricky]

It suprised me as well. As far as I can tell, the USA never actually used the 6-ton in service, but it inspired (to what extent is debateable) their range of light tanks.
This inspiration can be most easily seen in the suspension of the Light Tank, T2, and the twin-turret concept of the M2. The M2, as you know, developed into the M3 and then the M5, though the Vickers-type suspension was dropped after the first prototype T2.

T2


M2



P.S: Apologies for the digression! Maybe we should split off a Vickers 6-ton topic

[SturmTiger]

Nah.This is where the discussion lead.Got any production numbers on the 7TP?

[tom!]

Hi.

Slightly off-topic but related:

In 1930 IJA did some test trials with 2 twin-turreted Vickers 6-tons. Competetive trials with the domestic type 89 medium tank showed a better mobility and motorization of the british tank. On the other hand, the armament of two MGs only was found a waste of ressources for such a vehicle and the armour was inferiour. But it seems that the suspension technoloy was used for the development of the unique japanese tank suspension after 1934

In 1938 IJA tested several captured ex-chinese 6-ton tanks with gun turret competetive against type 95 light tanks and type 97 medium tanks. In general the type 95 tank was found equal with a better suspension and a weaker gun. The type 97 medium tank was found superiour in all respects.

In 1943/44 IJA captured several T-26 tanks from the chinese 200th Division. These were only used a pillboxes in fixed positions.

Yours

tom!