PMVRP Discussion

User-build registry of military vehicles around the world, whether in museums, private collections or still on the battlefield. The database can be found at www.pmvrp.com.
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JCalhoun
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby JCalhoun » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:11 am

I guess I should have phrased it better. When I mentioned rarity I was thinking of versions within the same vehicle family. Like a Sherman Firefly is more rare than a run of the mill M-4A1 and a T-34 with flamethrower is more rare than a standard T-34/85. A vehicle such as these if in poor condition wouldn't be more valuable than their standard brothers in good condition. A Tiger II in good condition will be worth more than a Tiger II in poor condition but, as you stated, any Tiger II is more rare than any Sherman variant, T-34 variant, etc. and will generally command more worth.
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Ricky » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:26 am

New question!

What about vehicles that were (probably) of WW2 origin but since re-vamped. Like the Israeli Shermans, or the South-American M3 Light tanks.

Or even Charioteers?
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:59 pm

I would list them under their final designation, since that is the condition they are in today. This should only be the case for vehicles which were actually modified, though - captured but un-modified vehicles should be listed under their original designations. This would mean that e.g. French tanks captured by the Germans should be listed under their French designation (except for the re-build models, such as the Char 2B flamethrower tank). The history of the vehicle should then reflect whether it has changed ownership.

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Ricky » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:59 pm

So something like an M50 ISherman would be listed as such.
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:24 pm

Exactly.

I'll try to come up with some general definitions.

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:58 pm

I wrote up a draft for evaluation of the vehicles' condition. The evaluation should be explained whenever possible, but it can serve as a guide to get a quick estimate of a vehicle's condition.
  • Extremely good No damages or post-use alterations. Full interior. In running condition.
  • Very good No significant damages, but may have minor combat damages or post-use alterations. Full interior. May be in running condition.
  • Good All parts are intact (except for combat damages), but may show some decay or post-war alterations. Full interior. Unlikely to be in running condition.
  • Reasonable Most parts are intact, but decay is visible or vehicle has major post-use alterations. Parts of interior missing. Not in running condition.
  • Poor No major structural damages, but decay is clearly visible. Parts of or entire interior missing.
  • Very poor Significant structural damages. Parts of or entire interior missing.
  • Extremely poor Large parts of the vehicle are missing. Parts of or entire interior missing.

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby bf109 Emil » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:15 am

bf109 Emil wrote:any idea what a T-34 will cost???http://www.thuringenmilitaria.com/vehicles.html
T-34/85 Soviet medium tank. This was a legendary Soviet tank made famous throughout WWII. This one is the late war design which had better armour and modified turret and gun. Has been fully refurbished, the paint has been blasted off inside and out and it's been fully repainted. Engine and mechanical parts are all running perfectly. There are 2 available, one was built in 1944 and the other in 1952. These are marked at a very special low price and would be ideal for any collector or Red Army re-enactment group. Email me for price. NEW

Image
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby bf109 Emil » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:17 am

This is a fully refurbished running Tatra halftrack. Almost identical to the SDKFZ/251C, apart from a few differences with the armoured plating in the back. This particular one has been fully refurbished and painted in WWII German style. Ideal for any collector or German re-enactment group. Special low price. Email me for price. NEW

or perhaps gathering groceries in this econo wagon...chances are the wife and kids would claim for their own, and i'd never get to drive it (sic) LOL...joking..but maybe someone has e-mailed for prices of various re-built equipment from this site...lots of nice pieces...http://www.thuringenmilitaria.com/vehicles.html
Image or this piece for sale in czech republic if i read this correct...was used on a farm...Image
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Ricky » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:05 am

Can we also have 'Appears...' meaning that the interior condition is unknown.

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:I wrote up a draft for evaluation of the vehicles' condition. The evaluation should be explained whenever possible, but it can serve as a guide to get a quick estimate of a vehicle's condition.
  • Extremely good No damages or post-use alterations. Full interior. In running condition.
  • Very good No significant damages, but may have minor combat damages or post-use alterations. Full interior. May be in running condition.
  • Good All parts are intact (except for combat damages), but may show some decay or post-war alterations. Full interior. Unlikely to be in running condition.
  • Reasonable Most parts are intact, but decay is visible or vehicle has major post-use alterations. Parts of interior missing. Not in running condition.
  • Poor No major structural damages, but decay is clearly visible. Parts of or entire interior missing.
  • Very poor Significant structural damages. Parts of or entire interior missing.
  • Extremely poor Large parts of the vehicle are missing. Parts of or entire interior missing.
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:25 am

If the interior's condition is unknown, we could add 'Interior's condition unknown', or something like that (obviously, those in running condition would have a full interior anyway, so this would only apply to vehicles in good condition and below.

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Ricky » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:43 am

Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:(obviously, those in running condition would have a full interior anyway, so this would only apply to vehicles in good condition and below.

Not necessarily. All you need to be in running order is for the engine and driver's controls to work. The entire fighting compartment could be empty. Or covered in pink fluffy carpetting with a mirrorball hanging from the roof. ;)
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:59 am

Fair enough ;)

I think that we should then say that only those vehicles where we also know that the interior is in perfect condition can be marked as very good and excellent. Those in running condition with a partial interior would best fit the good-category (since I still consider it unlikely).

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Ricky » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:49 pm

New question!

What about civilian vehicles that were not actually used by the military? Like this polic motorbike from 1941?
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/classics/bike.asp?id=73

I guess we ignore them? Cars, lorries, the whole lot?
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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby Christian Ankerstjerne » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:06 pm

Unless the specific vehicle was used by the military, I think they should be ignored.

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Re: PMVRP Discussion

Postby JCalhoun » Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:22 am

JCalhoun wrote:As for the Brewster, if what these articles say is correct, the Naval Air Museum acquired the plane from a group of investors who financed the operation of getting the plane from a warehouse in Ireland to a warehouse in Mobile, Alabama (I had no idea or I would have tried to find it :? ). It turns out that Lend-Lease or any other military had nothing to do with the plane coming to the US as it was privately owned when the Navy bought it.

Check this link ;
http://www.warbirdforum.com/bw372.htm

Not sure how true all that is. I'm hoping the folks at the museum will clear up some of that if/when they reply to my e-mail.


Here's a reply to my e-mail to the museum:

Subject: RE: Brewster Buffalo

Mr. Calhoun: The Buffalo is in fact on loan to the Finnish Air Force Museum
for 42 months. At the end of that period it will be returned to the
National Museum of Naval Aviation.

The aircraft came to NMNA attention through a civilian entity which
recovered it from a lake in Russia. The lake was originally in Finland but
became part of a settlement of the Continuing War between Finland and Russia
at the beginning WWII.

The aircraft was acquired from the civilian entity through an exchange under
the authority of Public Law 10 USC 2572.b. During the course of this
process the question of ownership was thoroughly and legally vetted. It was
determined that the aircraft was not owned by the US Navy. If it had been,
it would not have been eligible for exchange under 2572.

Contrary to some reports, the Buffalo is not being "restored".
Restoration implies the return of the aircraft to like new (or near)
condition. In order to preserve the authentic and historic significance of
the aircraft, it will be preserved in the condition it was in when
recovered from the Lake with the exception that handling damage and
structural repair necessary to the integrity of the aircraft will be
effected.
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