30mm cannon cartridges

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30mm cannon cartridges

Postby Tony Williams » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:24 am

I have posted a new article on my website to add to my series on collecting cannon cartridges, here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/30mm%20cannon.htm

The photo below shows the five different 30mm cartridges which were used in aircraft guns in WW2:

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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby bf109 Emil » Mon May 19, 2008 10:35 pm

not only where the cannons deadly on Gallands JV44, here is a clip of an ME262 carrying rockets, and the strategy between them and the 30 mm cannonshttp://home.att.net/~jv44/r4m.htm
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby bf109 Emil » Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:47 am

More unusual weapons carried by some Mosquitos included a 57 mm cannon for ground attack (this devastating gun was capable of destroying any armored vehicle), and the 4,000 lb. 'block-buster' bomb. Even with this bomb on board, the Mosquito could out fly most German night fighters, and on numerous occasions it attacked far-off Berlin and German V1 flying-bomb


57 mm cannon, damn the recoil must have nearly stopped the plane in mid-flight, i think they opted for rockets after....
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby canambridge » Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:50 pm

The recoil on the 75mm armed B-25s was supposed ot be pretty stiff.
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby Tony Williams » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:43 am

From Flying Guns – World War 2: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations 1933-45:

"This might be an appropriate moment to dispel one of the favoured myths of big-gun aircraft; that the recoil had a drastic effect on their speed. To take the example of the USAAF's B-25 fitted with a 75 mm M4 gun; the aircraft weighed around 12,000 kg and attacked at perhaps 400 km/h, the gun fired a 6.8 kg projectile at around 2,200 km/h. A simple rule of thumb is to multiply the weight by the speed to achieve a rough "momentum index" (it is actually a bit more complicated than this, as the expanding propellant gasses contribute to the recoil). It will be apparent that the aircraft has at least 200 times the momentum of the projectile, and a single shot will therefore not greatly slow it. In fact, at the end of an attack run in which several shots were fired, the plane would typically be slowed by 10-15 mph. The effect on fighter speed of long bursts of heavy gunfire (especially from automatic cannon) could be noticeable, particularly in a turning battle when the aircraft might be manoeuvring at the extremes of the flight envelope, close to stalling."
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby canambridge » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:26 am

Facts and physics take all the fun out of it!

Thanks Tony.
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby bf109 Emil » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:59 am

Tony Williams wrote:I have posted a new article on my website to add to my series on collecting cannon cartridges, here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/30mm%20cannon.htm

The photo below shows the five different 30mm cartridges which were used in aircraft guns in WW2:

Image


Tony...lacking an abundance of knowledge..what are the differences between these types of shell...ie are some say used for tank busting..others maybe armour piercing..or where most typical air-combat shells which exploded on impact trying to put as big a hole or destroy vital parts of an aircraft...have read numerous stories of RAF pilots receiving splinters from 20mm cannon shells, was unsure if 30 mm shells splintered the same way???

Thanks for any advice you can forward...
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby Tony Williams » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:55 am

All of the ammunition, except for the big one on the left, were designed purely for air fighting and fired HE/I shells, which damaged by a combination of blast, fragmentation and incendiary effects. The big 30x184B round was developed for the Rheinmetall-Borsig MK 101 and also used in the MK 103. It was used for both air fighting with HE shells (as shown here) or for anti-tank use with armour-piercing projectiles.
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby bf109 Emil » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:59 pm

thank you
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby Hubsu » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:04 pm

Sorry for drunken hijack of the thread, but Tony, is there any truth to the myth where an unexploded 30mm shell was found inside a B-17 wing tank? The story goes that when the techs that found the grenade and unscrewed it, they found a note inside saying:"This is all we can do for you for now...".

Apparently the forced labour that made the ammunition, left out the exploding stuff from the grenades in order to make the Germans lose the war more quickly :P
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby Tony Williams » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:24 am

I've not heard that story but it could well be true. I know that aircraft ammunition was sabotaged; I have read of one account by a Luftwaffe fighter pilot of how his cannon ammunition blew up when he tried to fire it. It was discovered that slave workers were tampering with the fuzes.
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Re: 30mm cannon cartridges

Postby bf109 Emil » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:44 am

Nanton Lancaster museum their is an unexploded 20mm shell donated by a former RCAF member, whom kept this shell for good luck...the note found inside is displayed along with the shell indicating wording along this line as well...love the Nanton museum for the thousands of donated pieces odds and ends which are being more and more added as family members realize the treasures brought back from Europe are more valued and treasured and more so to have found a home worthy of their value
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