Sukhoi PAK-FA / T-50 first flight

[TISO]

The veil of secret is lifted. The fist flight of Russian Stelth fighter project named (for time being) PAK-FA or T-50 in Komsomolsk na Amure (Komsomolsk on Amur river) in Habarovska oblast (Khabarovsk region). It is a first true russian 5.generation fighter plane. Russians had us guessing for a longer time now even regarding the basic shape of the beast (the number of drawings that circulated were very varied).
The pic:


Sukhoi's page (due to the traffic server crashed now is back up and running):
http://sukhoi.org/news/company/?id=3142

Sort items from russian news:
(video and pics):
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=338601&m=2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5jTVMVylIw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPHzCqSJ5xY

According to Russian Popular mechanics:

1) Can hope for 10-15% PAKFA advantage over F-22 due to two decades of tech. development.
2) F-22 detects Su35 from the distance of 150-180 km but can open fire from 110 km, while becomes visible for Su-35's radar by itself and on R-77 range of attack.
3) OLS-35 probably detects Raptor on 100 km distance.
4) PAKFA's AESA radar has probably 1526 modules with overall power 18 KWt. Range for a big air target – 400. TWS/A = 60/16.
5) Active antennas in the wings and tail are probable.
6) OLS with 360 deg.
7) Backward attacking missiles.
8) Has up to 12 Air-to-air missiles (if compact) in internal placement.
9) Two internal bays for WLRAAMs and LRAAMs up to 700 kg each. + 2 bays for short range missiles.
10) While Raptor can have up to 8 missiles in the internal bays.
11) WLRAAM 'Izdelie 810' is MiG-31 R-33 derivative. 400 km.
12) LRAAM 'Izdelie-180PD' is air-breath R-77 derivative. 250 km.
13) 'Izdelie-180' – solid-fuel R-77 derivative 110-140 km. With active and passive radar, homing on jammer.
14) Short range AAM – 'Izdelie-300' or K-MD IR matrix, double range of homing.
15) Kh-58UShKE
16) Kh-35
17) 500 kg guided and unguided bombs and cassette munition.
18) Intrafuselage cathapults UVKU-50L – up to 300 kg, UVKU-50U – up to 700 kg.
19) Internal bays total weight 2.000 kg
20) With + external hardpoints – 6.000 kg.
21) GSh-30 30 mm autocannon.
22) According to the plans – 430 planes must be built for RuAF.
23) Probably price $80 mil.
24) Will replace 339 Su-27 and 300 MiG-31

[Ricky]

I was just watching this (http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8487026.stm) on the BBC - it looks very interesting.

[Skua]

Looks like it means business, but I wouldn't hail it as an equal to the F-22 yet. The Russians aren't exactly known for their modesty and thruthfulness when it comes to performance figures. Wonder how the Russian Air Force will afford it by the way, the introduction of the Su-34 and MiG-35 has yet to be fulfilled.

[triumf]

First of all, let us see if it ever enters service before we let our colective fear drag us down. It could very well be the hype of the Mig25 again, if everyone is familiar with that one

[Grieg]

First of all, let us see if it ever enters service before we let our colective fear drag us down. It could very well be the hype of the Mig25 again, if everyone is familiar with that one

Indeed! I remember it well. Also the shock that came after Belenko landed his specimen in Japan and US officials were able to inspect it closely.
Ahh, 1976 I remember that year fondly for various reasons.

[TISO]

A few more pic's:
http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415335&stpid=65

Re Belenko's MiG-25 there is still a bit of contention if the plane was not really a plant for the US as SSSR was using beter electronics in their MiG-21's. MiG-25 was developed as hi-speed hi-alt recon and is interesting mostly due to it's construction and engines. Fighter version as was Belenko's plane was never a real fighter (dogfighter) but a long range bomber killer for PVO (anti aircraft command - not really part of air force) and even in that it was just a stop gap mesure between old Su-15's and new MiG-31's. BTW electrnics in Belenko's plane would not be suceptible fro EM surges in case of nuclear blast while US at the time electronics would be.

What videos for the gullible west don't show :
Hurah! It flys!

[Hubsu]

A few notions that I made:

-No room for internal weaponry or large internal fuel: crappier stealth, or poorer performance than contemporary stealth vehicles
-Itsybitsy tiny vertical stabilisators: They get blacked out with increased AoA, meaning the jet is not likely to be a stellar performer in the close quarter fighting.

Now I know the jet is just a preproduction jet and we (most likely) will see the final product well into the 2030s I am still not impressed at all. Where's the innovation? It's like the jet is 20 years too late to what it wants to be.

[Oli]

Also: http://blog.flightstory.net/index.php?s=sukhoi

No room for internal weaponry or large internal fuel:

No? Look at the size of the thing:

I'd say there's plenty of room once they lose the test instrumentation.
This photo: http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.a ... 5&stpid=65 already looks like there's a sizeable weapons bay between the intakes, and there may be room in the wing roots, they look to be quite deep enough for short range AAMs.

crappier stealth

That's a guess on your part. The Russians don't place as much emphasis on stealth anyway (and if their plasma system works then it'll be better than F-22).

or poorer performance than contemporary stealth vehicles

I'd say it was designed to do a particular job: in other words it will perform as required (whether that's better/ worse/ the same as F-22 is another thing).

Itsybitsy tiny vertical stabilisators: They get blacked out with increased AoA, meaning the jet is not likely to be a stellar performer in the close quarter fighting.

Again, look at the drawing: the exhaust nozzles have loads of space around them - I bet that production models (if it ever goes into production) will have vectoring nozzles and that's why the fins are relatively small - control authority will come from the vectoring as much as from aerodynamic surfaces.

[Hubsu]

crappier stealth

That's a guess on your part.

The "crappier stealth" part was to be taken in conjunction with the "No room for internal weapons or internal fuel". Hanging stuff outside will probably introduce crevices where there is a not so small chance of getting a good reflection back. But since you say there will be room for large amounts of internal fuel and internal weapons, I'll take it back if you wish.

However we can make a good assumption about crappier stealth from the pic you gave us. Straight intakes with a direct line of sight to the fan blades will decrease stealth. It also gives NCTR a way to work by allowing the blades to modulate the return signal.

I bet that production models (if it ever goes into production) will have vectoring nozzles and that's why the fins are relatively small - control authority will come from the vectoring as much as from aerodynamic surfaces.

3D-vectoring increases complexity, weight, maintainability and whatnot but of course that doesn't mean they wouldn't fit it if they need it. You're correct, there's ample of room to place a good swiveling nozzle in there.

And please do note the addendum at the end of my first post. We'll probably see the plane change a lot before they'll get it out. Just like they have changed every plane that's been introduced before.

[Oli]

However we can make a good assumption about crappier stealth from the pic you gave us. Straight intakes with a direct line of sight to the fan blades will decrease stealth.

It would, but it looks to me like the intakes are snaked vertically i.e. they're well below the fuselage at the intake and switch to above the "waterline" for exhaust.

And please do note the addendum at the end of my first post. We'll probably see the plane change a lot before they'll get it out. Just like they have changed every plane that's been introduced before.

Yup. There's not many 'planes that looked the same in production as they did as prototypes.

[Ricky]

Looks like the F-35 is hitting problems of its own...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8492430.stm

[Smeghead]

Does the PAK-FA have a Nato reporting name?

I hear rumors that it's "Fierfox"

[Oli]

Does the PAK-FA have a Nato reporting name?
I hear rumors that it's "Fierfox"

Not yet AFAIK, in fact the MiG 1.44 and Su-47 shouldn't have received a reporting name either: maybe the ASCC (Air Standardization Coordinating Committee) had a slow day when they assigned Flatpack (still a great joke!) and Firkin.
But on the Key Publishing forum (Air International/ Air Forces Monthly etc) someone suggested "Fanboy", probably due to the sheer number of threads they've had over the years tracking PAK-FA's progress.

[wooden major]

is the cold war back on again ? ...the russians arent about spreading the workers paradise anymore ,right ? ...are they still worried that the west wants to invade and steal their vast natural deposits of snow ?

besides causing the west a lot of distress and makeing sunni states want nukes , how do the russians benifit by haveing tehran in charge of nukes that can reach moscow ? the russkis have their own jihadist issue in chechnaya why would they want to hurry along the comming of the twelveth iman in iran ? the russians glee at our discomforture with iranian ICBMs seems short sighted given that most great russians do not wish to convert to the shia faith .

the soviets are not stupid nor are they usually short sighted , am i missing some kind of clever soviet end game that results in a long term benifit for muscovy ?


ps. are the russians still in the game as a first rate military power ,can they still hit the fuldi gap with 40 plus armored divisions on day one plus 15 hours ?why would they want to ?

[Hubsu]

besides causing the west a lot of distress and makeing sunni states want nukes , how do the russians benifit by haveing tehran in charge of nukes that can reach moscow ?

Both Russia and Iran have loads of oil to defend from imperialistic-capitalistic-swines, so I wouldn't be surprised if they want to try to keep their sovereignity intact. With both Iran and Russia having nukes, no one would ever be stupid enough to invade them.

Otoh, if Russia decides to cut their oil and natural gas import to the west, whole Europe is in their knees in 2-3 weeks.

ps. are the russians still in the game as a first rate military power ,can they still hit the fuldi gap with 40 plus armored divisions on day one plus 15 hours ?

Their armed forces are in a total dismay. After the whole nation went banckrupt a little over decade a go and the way their massive resources only benefit the few politicians and oligarchs, they simply don't have any money to keep up the armed forces. In practise, their air forces doesn't have had any new planes in 2 decades, and the old ones are rotting away and their naval fleet is barely functional. The Georgian war showed us how badly the things actually were.